《卷十二 - Book 12》

《貴義 - Esteem for Righteousness》

1

貴義:

子墨子曰：“萬事莫貴於義。今謂人曰：‘予子冠履，而斷子之手足，子為之乎？’必不為，何故？則冠履不若手足之貴也。又曰：‘予子天下而殺子之身，子為之乎？’必不為，何故？則天下不若身之貴也。爭一言以相殺，是貴義於其身也。故曰，萬事莫貴於義也。”

Esteem for Righteousness:

Mozi said: Of the multitude of things none is more valuable than righteousness. Suppose we say to a person: We shall give you a hat and shoes on condition you let us cut off your hands and feet. Would he agree to this? Of course, he will not agree. Why? Just because hats and shoes are not so valuable as hands and feet. Again (if we say), we shall give you the whole world on condition you let us kill you. Would he agree to this? Of course he will not agree. Why? Just because the world is not so valuable as one's person. Yet people have struggled against one another for a single principle. This shows righteousness is even more valuable than one's person. Hence we say, of the multitude of things none is more valuable than righteousness.

2

貴義:

子墨子自魯即齊，過故人，謂子墨子曰：“今天下莫為義，子獨自苦而為義，子不若已。”子墨子曰：“今有人於此，有子十人，一人耕而九人處，則耕者不可以不益急矣。何故？則食者眾，而耕者寡也。今天下莫為義，則子如勸我者也，何故止我？”子墨子南游於楚，見楚獻惠王，獻惠王以老辭，使穆賀見子墨子。子墨子說穆賀，穆賀大說，謂子墨子曰：“子之言則成善矣！而君王，天下之大王也，毋乃曰‘賤人之所為’，而不用乎？”子墨子曰：“唯其可行。譬若藥然，天子食之以順其疾，豈曰‘一草之本’而不食哉？今農夫入其稅於大人，大人為酒醴粢盛以祭上帝鬼神，豈曰‘賤人之所為’而不享哉？故雖賤人也，上比之農，下比之藥，曾不若一草之本乎？且主君亦嘗聞湯之說乎？昔者，湯將往見伊尹，令彭氏之子御。彭氏之子半道而問曰：‘君將何之？’湯曰：‘將往見伊尹。’彭氏之子曰：‘伊尹，天下之賤人也。若君欲見之，亦令召問焉，彼受賜矣。’湯曰：‘非女所知也。今有藥此，食之則耳加聰，目加明，則吾必說而強食之。今夫伊尹之於我國也，譬之良醫善藥也。而子不欲我見伊尹，是子不欲吾善也。’因下彭氏之子，不使御。彼苟然，然後可也”。

Esteem for Righteousness:

On his way from Lu to Qi, Mozi met an old friend who said to him: "Nowadays none in the world practises any righteousness. You are merely inflicting pain on yourself by trying to practise righteousness. You had better give it up." Mozi replied: Suppose a man has ten sons. Only one attends to the farm while the other nine stay at home. Then the farmer must work all the more vigorously. Why? Because many eat while few work. Now, none in the world practises righteousness. Then you should all the more encourage me. Why do you stop me? Mozi travelled south to Chu to see Lord Hui of Chu. Lord Hui refused to see him with the excuse of his being old, and let Mu He receive him. Mozi talked to Mu He and Mu He was greatly pleased. He said to Mozi: "Your ideas may be quite good. But our Lord is a great lord of the empire. Can't he refuse to employ them because they come only from a humble man?" Mozi replied: So long as they are applicable they are like (good) medicines, which are only the roots of herbs. Yet even the emperor takes them to cure his sickness. Does he refuse to take them because they are only the roots of a herb? Now, the farmer pays his tax to the superior. (With this,) the superior prepares wine and cakes to do sacrifice to God, ghosts and spirits. Do these refuse to accept them because they come from the humble? So, even a humble man can yet be compared to the farmer, or, at least to medicine. Is he even of less value than the roots of a herb? Moreover, has not my Lord heard the story of Tang? Anciently, Tang was going to see Yi Yin and let a son of the house of Peng be the driver. On the way, the son of Peng inquired where the lord was going. Tang told him that he was going to see Yi Yin. The son of Peng said: "Yi Yin is but a humble man of the world. If you want to see him just send for him and he will feel quite flattered." Tang said: "This is not what you can understand. Here is some medicine. When taken, it will sharpen the ears and brighten the eyes. Then I shall be pleased and endeavour to take it. Now, Yi Yin to me is like a good physician and an effective medicine. Yet you don't think I should see him. It means you do not want to see me become good." Thereupon he dismissed the son of Peng and did not let him drive any more. They did not resume their journey till the son of Peng became respectful.

3

貴義:

子墨子曰：“凡言凡動，利於天鬼百姓者為之；凡言凡動，害於天鬼百姓者舍之；凡言凡動，合於三代聖王堯舜禹湯文武者為之；凡言凡動，合於三代暴王桀紂幽厲者舍之。”

Esteem for Righteousness:

Mozi said: Any word, any action, that is beneficial to Heaven, the spirits, and the people is to be carried out. Any word, any action, that is harmful to Heaven, the spirits, and the people is to be abandoned. Any word, any action, that is in harmony with the sage-kings of the Three Dynasties, Yao, Shun, Yu, Tang, Wen, and Wu, is to be carried out. Any word, any action, that is in agreement with the wicked kings of the Three Dynasties, Jie, Zhou, You, and Li, is to be abandoned.

4

貴義:

子墨子曰：“言足以遷行者，常之；不足以遷行者，勿常。不足以遷行而常之，是蕩口也。”

Esteem for Righteousness:

Mozi said: Any principle that can modify conduct, (expound) much; any principle that cannot modify conduct, do not (expound) much. To (expound) much what cannot modify conduct is just to wear out one's mouth.

5

貴義:

子墨子曰：“必去六辟。嘿則思，言則誨，動則事，使三者代御，必為聖人。必去喜，去怒，去樂，去悲，去愛，而用仁義。手足口鼻耳，從事於義，必為聖人。”

Esteem for Righteousness:

Mozi said: The six peculiarities must be removed. When silent one should be deliberating; when talking one should instruct; when acting one should achieve (something). When one employs these three alternatively he will be a sage. Pleasure, anger, joy, sorrow, love (and hate) are to be removed and magnanimity and righteousness are to replace them. When hands, feet, mouth, nose, ears (and eyes) are employed for righteousness, then one will surely be a sage.

6

貴義:

子墨子謂二三子曰：“為義而不能，必無排其道。譬若匠人之斲而不能，無排其繩。”

Esteem for Righteousness:

Mozi said to a few of his disciples: Though one cannot achieve righteousness one must not abandon the way, just as the carpenter must not blame the line though he cannot saw the lumber straight.

7

貴義:

子墨子曰：“世之君子，使之為一犬一彘之宰，不能則辭之；使為一國之相，不能而為之。豈不悖哉！”

Esteem for Righteousness:

Mozi said: As the gentlemen in the world cannot be butchers of dogs and pigs, they would refuse when asked to be such. Yet, though they are not capable of being ministers in a state, they would accept it when asked to be such. Isn't this perverse?

8

貴義:

子墨子曰：“今瞽曰：‘鉅者白也，黔者黑也。’雖明目者無以易之。兼白黑，使瞽取焉，不能知也。故我曰瞽不知白黑者，非以其名也，以其取也。今天下之君子之名仁也，雖禹湯無以易之。兼仁與不仁，而使天下之君子取焉，不能知也。故我曰天下之君子不知仁者，非以其名也，亦以其取也。”

Esteem for Righteousness:

Mozi said: The blind say that which is bright is white, that which is dark is black. Even the keen-sighted cannot alter this. But if we should mix up the black and white objects and let the blind select them they could not do it. Hence the reason that I say the blind do not know white from black does not lie in the matter of definition but in the process of selection. Now, the way the gentlemen of the world define magnanimity even Yu and Tang cannot alter. But when we mix up magnanimous conduct with unmagnanimous conduct and let the gentlemen of the world choose them they do not know which is which. So, the reason that I say the gentlemen of the world do not know magnanimity does not lie in the matter of definition either; it also lies in the process of selection.

9

貴義:

子墨子曰：“今士之用身，不若商人之用一布之慎也。商人用一布布，不敢繼苟而讎焉，必擇良者。今士之用身則不然，意之所欲則為之，厚者入刑罰，薄者被毀醜，則士之用身不若商人之用一布之慎也。”

Esteem for Righteousness:

Mozi said: The gentlemen of to-day handle their persons with even less care than the merchant would handle a bale of cloth. When the merchant handles a bale of cloth he dare not sell it without discretion; he will surely select a good one. But the gentlemen of to-day handle their person quite differently. Whatever they happen to desire they will carry out. In the more severe cases they fall into punishment; even in less severe cases they are visited with condemnation. So then the gentlemen are even less careful in handling their persons than the merchant is in handling a bale of cloth.

10

貴義:

子墨子曰：“世之君子欲其義之成，而助之修其身則慍，是猶欲其牆之成，而人助之築則慍也，豈不悖哉！”

Esteem for Righteousness:

Mozi said: The gentlemen of our time desire to achieve righteousness. Yet when we endeavour to help them in the cultivation of their personality they become resentful. This is like desiring the completion of a wall and becoming resentful when helped in the building. Isn't this perverse?

11

貴義:

子墨子曰：“古之聖王，欲傳其道於後世，是故書之竹帛，鏤之金石，傳遺後世子孫，欲後世子孫法之也。今聞先王之遺而不為，是廢先王之傳也。”

Esteem for Righteousness:

Mozi said: The sage-kings of old wanted to have their teaching passed to future generations. Therefore they recorded it on bamboos and silk and engraved it in metal and stone to bequeath to posterity so that their descendants could follow it. Now the ways of the early kings are known but not carried out. This is to break the tradition of the early kings.

12

貴義:

子墨子南遊使衛，關中載書甚多，弦唐子見而怪之，曰：“吾夫子教公尚過曰：‘揣曲直而已。’今夫子載書甚多，何有也？”子墨子曰：“昔者周公旦朝讀書百篇，夕見漆十士。故周公旦佐相天子，其脩至於今。翟上無君上之事，下無耕農之難，吾安敢廢此？翟聞之：‘同歸之物，信有誤者。’然而民聽不鈞，是以書多也。今若過之心者，數逆於精微，同歸之物，既已知其要矣，是以不教以書也。而子何怪焉？”

Esteem for Righteousness:

Mozi brought numerous books in his wagon drawers on his southern journey as an envoy to Wei. Xian Dangzi saw them and was surprised. He inquired: "Sir, you have instructed Gong Shang Guo just to consider the right and wrong (of any case), and do no more. Now you, sir, bring very many books along. What can be the use for them?" Mozi said: Anciently, Duke Dan of Zhou read one hundred pages every morning and received seventy scholars every evening. Therefore his achievements as minister to the emperor have lasted till this day. I have no superior above me to serve, nor any farm below to attend to. How dare I neglect these (books)? I have heard, though the (different) ways lead to the same end they are not presented without deviations. And the common people do not know how to place proper importance in what they hear. Hence the large number of books. When one has reviewed the ideas and has thought deeply on them then he understands the essentials which lead to the same end. Therefore he does not need to be instructed by books. Why should you feel so much surprised?

13

貴義:

子墨子謂公良桓子曰：“衛，小國也，處於齊、晉之閒，猶貧家之處於富家之閒也。貧家而學富家之衣食多用，則速亡必矣。今簡子之家，飾車數百乘，馬食菽粟者數百匹，婦人衣文繡者數百人，吾取飾車、食馬之費，與繡衣之財以畜士，必千人有餘。若有患難，則使百人處於前，數百於後，與婦人數百人處前後，孰安？吾以為不若畜士之安也。”

Esteem for Righteousness:

Mozi said to Gong Liang Huanzi: Wei is a small state situated between Qi and Jin. It is like a poor family in the midst of rich families. For a poor family to imitate the rich families in the extravagance in clothing and food, ruin is assured. Now we find in your house hundreds of decorated vehicles, hundreds of horses fed on grain, several hundred women clothed with finery and embroidery. If the expenditures for the decorations of the vehicles, food to the horses, and the embroidered clothes are used to maintain soldiers, there should be more than a thousand. Upon emergency, several hundred of them can be stationed at the van and several hundred can be stationed in the rear. To do this or to let the several hundred women hold the van and the rear, which is more secure? I should think to keep women is not so secure as to maintain soldiers.

14

貴義:

子墨子仕人於衛，所仕者至而反。子墨子曰：“何故反？”對曰：“與我言而不當。曰‘待女以千盆。’授我五百盆，故去之也。”子墨子曰：“授子過千盆，則子去之乎？”對曰：“不去。”子墨子曰：“然則，非為其不審也，為其寡也。”

Esteem for Righteousness:

Mozi had introduced somebody to office in Wei. The man went and returned. Mozi asked him why he returned. He answered: "In counsel my opinions were not considered. Being promised a thousand pen was given only five hundred. Therefore I left." Mozi inquired: Suppose you were given more than a thousand pen, would you still leave? It was answered, no. Mozi said: Then it is not because of lack of consideration. It is because of the smallness of the salary.

15

貴義:

子墨子曰：“世俗之君子，視義士不若負粟者。今有人於此，負粟息於路側，欲起而不能，君子見之，無長少貴賤，必起之。何故也？曰義也。今為義之君子，奉承先王之道以語之，縱不說而行，又從而非毀之。則是世俗之君子之視義士也，不若視負粟者也。”

Esteem for Righteousness:

Mozi said: The gentlemen of the world have even less regard for the righteous man than for the grain carrier. If a carrier was resting by the road side and was unable to rise up, the gentlemen would surely help him to rise upon seeing him, whether he be old or young, honourable or humble. Why? Because it is right. But when the gentleman who practises righteousness urges them with the way of the early kings, they are not only unwilling to carry it out but will even trample it down. So, then, the gentlemen of the world have even less regard for the righteous man than for the grain carrier.

16

貴義:

子墨子曰：“商人之四方，市賈信徙，雖有關梁之難，盜賊之危，必為之。今士坐而言義，無關梁之難，盜賊之危，此為信徙，不可勝計，然而不為。則士之計利不若商人之察也。”

Esteem for Righteousness:

Mozi said: The merchants go everywhere to do business and their gain is doubled and multiplied. They persist notwithstanding the difficulties at the passes and bridges, and the dangers of the highwaymen and robbers. Now the gentlemen can sit down and teach righteousness. There are no difficulties at the passes and bridges or dangers from highwaymen and robbers. Their gain should be not only doubled and multiplied but become incalculable. Yet, they will not do it. Then the gentlemen are not as discerning as the merchants in their calculation of benefits.

17

貴義:

子墨子北之齊，遇日者。日者曰：“帝以今日殺黑龍於北方，而先生之色黑，不可以北。”子墨子不聽，遂北，至淄水，不遂而反焉。日者曰：“我謂先生不可以北。”子墨子曰：“南之人不得北，北之人不得南，其色有黑者有白者，何故皆不遂也？且帝以甲乙殺青龍於東方，以丙丁殺赤龍於南方，以庚辛殺白龍於西方，以壬癸殺黑龍於北方，若用子之言，則是禁天下之行者也。是圍心而虛天下也，子之言不可用也。”

Esteem for Righteousness:

Mozi was going north to Qi and met a fortune teller on the way. The fortune teller told him: "God kills the black dragon in the north to-day. Now, your complexion is dark. You must not go north." Mozi did not listen to him and went north. At the Ze River he could proceed no further and returned. The fortune teller said: "I have told you that you must not go north." Mozi said: People on the south, of course, cannot go north (of the Ze River), but neither can those on the north come south. (Moreover), there are the dark-complexioned, but there are also the fair-complexioned. Why is it that neither can proceed? Besides, God kills the blue dragon on the days of Jia and of Yi in the East, the red dragon on the days of Bing and of Ding in the South, the white dragon on the days of Geng and of Xin in the West, and the black dragon on the days of Ren and of Gui in the North. According to you then all the travellers in the world will be prohibited, then all their plans will be curbed and the world made empty. Your idea is not to be adopted.

18

貴義:

子墨子曰：“吾言足用矣，舍言革思者，是猶舍穫而拾粟也。以其言非吾言者，是猶以卵投石也，盡天下之卵，其石猶是也，不可毀也。”

Esteem for Righteousness:

Mozi said: My principle is sufficient. To abandon my principle and exercise thought is like abandoning the crop and trying to pick up grains. To refute my principle with one's own principle is like throwing an egg against a boulder. The eggs in the world would be exhausted without doing any harm to the boulder.

《公孟 - Gong Meng》

1

公孟:

公孟子謂子墨子曰：“君子共己以待，問焉則言，不問焉則止。譬若鍾然，扣則鳴，不扣則不鳴。”子墨子曰：“是言有三物焉，子乃今知其一身也，又未知其所謂也。若大人行淫暴於國家，進而諫，則謂之不遜，因左右而獻諫，則謂之言議。此君子之所疑惑也。若大人為政，將因於國家之難，譬若機之將發也然，君子之必以諫，然而大人之利，若此者，雖不扣必鳴者也。若大人舉不義之異行，雖得大巧之經，可行於軍旅之事，欲攻伐無罪之國，有之也，君得之，則必用之矣。以廣辟土地，著稅偽材，出必見辱，所攻者不利，而攻者亦不利，是兩不利也。若此者，雖不扣必鳴者也。且子曰：‘君子共己待，問焉則言，不問焉則止，譬若鍾然，扣則鳴，不扣則不鳴。’今未有扣，子而言，是子之謂不扣而鳴邪？是子之所謂非君子邪？”

Gong Meng:

Gong Mengzi said to Mozi: "The gentleman should fold his hands on the breast in waiting. He will speak when consulted he will not speak when not consulted. He is like a bell when struck it sounds, when not struck it does not sound." Mozi said: This idea covers three phases of which you know but one; so you do not understand what you are talking about. In the case of the ruler's committing violence in the state, to go and warn him will be called insolence, and to offer warning through those around him will be called meddling with counsel. This is where the gentleman hesitates (to speak). Now, if the ruler, in his administration, meets with some difficulty in the state resembling a machine about to shoot,... the gentleman must give warning. So the benefit to the ruler... In such cases although he is not asked he should give counsel. Again, if the lord should launch out on some unrighteous, extraordinary enterprise; and if in possession of clever military schemes, he should attack innocent states with a view to extending his territory, collecting taxes and gathering wealth; and if in taking such a course he meet with humiliation, as it is beneficial neither to the victor nor to the vanquished -- and hence harmful to both - in such a case the gentleman must respond with counsel though he is not asked. Moreover, according to what you have said, the gentleman is to fold his hands on his breast and wait. He will speak when consulted; he will not speak when not consulted. He is like a bell; when struck it sounds, when not struck it does not sound. Now, none had asked you and yet you spoke. Is this what you call sounding without being struck? Is this what you call ungentlemanly?

2

公孟:

公孟子謂子墨子曰：“實為善，人孰不知？譬若良玉，處而不出有餘糈。譬若美女，處而不出，人爭求之。行而自衒，人莫之取也。今子遍從人而說之，何其勞也？”子墨子曰：“今夫世亂，求美女者眾，美女雖不出，人多求之；今求善者寡，不強說人，人莫之知也。且有二生，於此善筮。一行為人筮者，一處而不出者。行為人筮者與處而不出者，其糈孰多？”公孟子曰：“行為人筮者其糈多。”子墨子曰：“仁義鈞。行說人者，其功善亦多，何故不行說人也！”

Gong Meng:

Gong Mengzi said to Mozi: "How is it possible for the people to be ignorant of what is really good? For instance, when the able fortune teller remains at home and does not go abroad, he will have grain in abundance; when the beautful maiden remains at home and does not go abroad, people will compete in obtaining her. On the other hand if she should set forth to sell herself, none would take her. Now you go about, trying to persuade everybody, wherefore all this fuss?" Mozi said: In the present world of chaos those who seek the beautiful maidens are many. So, though they remain at home most people would take them. But those who seek goodness are few. Without intelligent persuasion people will not understand. Moreover, suppose here are two people good at fortune telling. One travels about to tell people's fortunes, and the other remains at home and does not go abroad. Which of these two will have more grain? Gong Mengzi said that he who travels about and tells people's fortunes will have more grain. Mozi said: So with magnanimity and righteousness. He who travels about and urges the people has more merit also. Why not, then, let us travel about and urge the people?

3

公孟:

公孟子戴章甫，搢忽，儒服，而以見子墨子曰：“君子服然後行乎？其行然後服乎？”子墨子曰：“行不在服。”公孟子曰：“何以知其然也？”子墨子曰：“昔者，齊桓公高冠博帶，金劍木盾，以治其國，其國治。昔者，晉文公大布之衣，牂羊之裘，韋以帶劍，以治其國，其國治。昔者，楚莊王鮮冠組纓，縫衣博袍，以治其國，其國治。昔者，越王句踐剪髮文身，以治其國，其國治。此四君者，其服不同，其行猶一也。翟以是知行之不在服也。”公孟子曰：“善！吾聞之曰‘宿善者不祥’，請舍忽，易章甫，復見夫子可乎？”子墨子曰：“請因以相見也。若必將舍忽、易章甫，而後相見，然則行果在服也。”

Gong Meng:

Gong Mengzi, wearing a ceremonial hat, carrying the officials' tablet, and in the cloak of the learned, came to see Mozi and asked: "Does the gentleman dress in appropriate attire before acting. Or does he do his business first and then consider his attire?" Mozi said: Action does not depend on attire. Gong Mengzi asked how is it possible to know. Mozi said: Formerly, Lord Huan of Qi (685-643 B.C.), wearing a high hat and a wide girdle, with a gold sword and wooden shield, governed his state. And his state became orderly. Lord Wen of Jin (780-746 B.C.), wearing garments of coarse cloth and sheepskin cloak, with the sword in a leather belt, governed his state. And his state became orderly. Lord Zhuang of Chu (671-626 B.C.), wearing a gaudy hat with a tassel, and a red garment and a big gown, governed his state. And his state became orderly. Lord Gou Jian of Yue (496-465 B.C.), had his hair cut short and his body tattooed and governed his state, and his state became orderly. Now, these four lords differed in attire but agreed in action. I therefore know action does not depend on attire. Gong Mengzi said: "That is fine. I have heard that it is unlucky to keep goodness in darkness. So, let me go and put away the tablet and change the hat and come back to see you. Is this all right?" Mozi said: Please come out with your errand. If you have to put away the tablet and change the hat before you can see me, then, action does depend on attire.

4

公孟:

公孟子曰：“君子必古言服，然後仁。”子墨子曰：“昔者，商王紂，卿士費仲，為天下之暴人，箕子、微子為天下之聖人，此同言而或仁不仁也。周公旦為天下之聖人，關叔為天下之暴人，此同服或仁或不仁。然則不在古服與古言矣。且子法周而未法夏也，子之古非古也。”

Gong Meng:

Gong Mengzi said: "The gentleman has to be ancient in attire and in speech before he can be magnanimous." Mozi said: In ancient times, minister Fei Zhong of Emperor Zhou of Shang was the terror of the world. While Baron Ji and Baron Wei were the sages of the world. Now these spoke the same dialect, but the latter were magnanimous and the former was wicked. (Later), Duke Dan of Zhou was the sage of the world and Uncle Guan was the villain of the world. Now these wore the same attire but the former was magnanimous and the latter wicked. Then, virtue evidently does not depend on the antiquity of attire and speech. Moreover, you are following only Zhou and not Xia. Your antiquity does not go back far enough.

5

公孟:

公孟子謂子墨子曰：“昔者聖王之列也，上聖立為天子，其次立為卿、大夫，今孔子博於詩、書，察於禮樂，詳於萬物，若使孔子當聖王，則豈不以孔子為天子哉？”子墨子曰：“夫知者，必尊天事鬼，愛人節用，合焉為知矣。今子曰：‘孔子博於詩書，察於禮樂，詳於萬物’，而曰可以為天子，是數人之齒，而以為富。”

Gong Meng:

Gong Mengzi said to Mozi: "In ancient times, in assigning ranks the sage-kings crowned the most sagacious as emperor, and appointed the others as ministers and secretaries. Now Confucius had an extensive knowledge of poetry and history, a clear understanding of ceremonial and music, and an intimate insight into many things. If it fell upon Confucius to be the sage-king, why should he not make himself emperor?" Mozi said: The wise man should reverence Heaven and worship the spirits, love the people and economize in expenditures. Combining these we get wisdom. Now, you say, Confucius had an extensive knowledge of poetry and history, a clear understanding of ceremonials and music, and an intimate insight into many things. Therefore, you think, he should be made emperor. This is like estimating one's wealth by counting the number of notches.

6

公孟:

公孟子曰：“貧富壽夭，齰然在天，不可損益。”又曰：“君子必學。”子墨子曰：“教人學而執有命，是猶命人葆而去亓冠也。”

Gong Meng:

Gong Mengzi said: "Poverty or wealth, old age or untimely death, all are determined by Heaven and they cannot be altered." Again, he said: "The superior man must learn." Mozi said: To hold fatalism and teach people to learn is like telling him to cover his hair and yet remove his hat.

7

公孟:

公孟子謂子墨子曰：“有義不義，無祥不祥。”子墨子曰：“古聖王皆以鬼神為神明，而為禍福，執有祥不祥，是以政治而國安也。自桀紂以下，皆以鬼神為不神明，不能為禍福，執無祥不祥，是以政亂而國危也。故先王之書，子亦有之曰：‘亓傲也，出於子，不祥。’此言為不善之有罰，為善之有賞。”

Gong Meng:

Gong Mengzi said to Mozi: "There is only righteousness and unrighteousness, but no such thing as propitiousness or unpropitiousness." Mozi said: The ancient sage-kings all regarded the ghosts and spirits as intelligent and in control of calamity and blessing. They held there was propitiousness and unpropitiousness and thereby the government was well administered and the country was secure. From Jie and Zhou down they all regarded the ghosts and spirits as unintelligent and not in control of calamity and blessing. They held there was no propitiousness and unpropitiousness, and thereby the government became disorderly and the country in danger. So, the book of the ancient kings "Jizi" says, "Pride brings calamity." That is to say, the evil act will be punished and the good act will be rewarded.

8

公孟:

子墨子謂公孟子曰：“喪禮，君與父母、妻、後子死，三年喪服，伯父、叔父、兄弟期，族人五月，姑、姊、舅、甥皆有數月之喪。或以不喪之閒，誦詩三百，弦詩三百，歌詩三百，舞詩三百。若用子之言，則君子何日以聽治？庶人何日以從事？”公孟子曰：“國亂則治之，國治則為禮樂。國治則從事，國富則為禮樂。子墨子曰：“國之治。治之廢，則國之治亦廢。國之富也，從事，故富也。從事廢，則國之富亦廢。故雖治國，勸之無饜，然後可也。今子曰：‘國治，則為禮樂，亂則治之’，是譬猶噎而穿井也，死而求醫也。古者三代暴王桀紂幽厲，薾為聲樂，不顧其民，是以身為刑僇，國為戾虛者，皆從此道也。”

Gong Meng:

Mozi said to Gong Mengzi: According to the ceremonial for the death of the ruler, the parents, the wife, and the first-born son, there shall be mourning for three years. For the elder uncle, younger uncle, elder brother, younger brother, and first cousins within the family, five months. And for the aunt, the sister, the uncle on mother's side, and the nephew on sister's side, there will be mourning of several months for each. Many also use the intervals between periods of mourning to read the Three Hundred Poems according to rhymes, to play them on the string instruments, to sing them, and to dance to them. If your counsel should be followed when can the gentleman attend to government, the common man to work? Gong Mengzi said: "When the country is in chaos it should be put in order; when it is in order, ceremonials and music may be pursued. When the country is poor work should be attended to; when it is rich, ceremonials and music may be pursued." Mozi said: A country may be orderly. But it is because it is being well governed that it is orderly. As soon as good administration is abandoned, order disappears also. A country may be rich. But it is because work is being attended to that it is rich. As soon as work is abandoned, wealth disappears also. Therefore although a country is orderly it is necessary to encourage unceasing attention to administration. Now, you say, when the country is in order, ceremonials and music may be pursued. But put it in order when it becomes disorderly. This is similar to digging a well when some one is choked and to seeking a physician when some one is dead. In ancient times, the wicked kings of the Three Dynasties, Jie, Zhou, You, and Li, revelled in music, and did not remember their people. Therefore they suffered capital punishment and brought calamity to their empire. And it was all from following this idea.

9

公孟:

公孟子曰：“無鬼神。”又曰：“君子必學祭祀。”子墨子曰：“執無鬼而學祭禮，是猶無客而學客禮也，是猶無魚而為魚𦊟也。”

Gong Meng:

Gong Mengzi said that there were no ghosts and spirits; again, he said that the superior man must learn sacrifice and worship. Mozi said: To hold there are no spirits and learn sacrificial ceremonials is comparable to learning the ceremonials of hospitality while there is no guest or to making fishing nets while there are no fish.

10

公孟:

公孟子謂子墨子曰：“子以三年之喪為非，子之三日之喪亦非也。”子墨子曰：“子以三年之喪非三日之喪，是猶裸謂撅者不恭也。”

Gong Meng:

Gong Mengzi said to Mozi: "You think mourning for three years is wrong. Your mourning for three days is also wrong." Mozi replied: You hold mourning for three years and condemn mourning for three days. This is similar to the naked person condemning the person who lifted up his garments for indecency.

11

公孟:

公孟子謂子墨子曰：“知有賢於人，則可謂知乎？”子墨子曰：“愚之知有以賢於人，而愚豈可謂知矣哉？”

Gong Meng:

Gong Mengzi asked Mozi whether it is wisdom when one knows something better than some other person. Mozi answered: A fool may know something better than some other person. Yet can the fool be said to be wise?

12

公孟:

公孟子曰：“三年之喪，學吾之慕父母。”子墨子曰：“夫嬰兒子之知，獨慕父母而已。父母不可得也，然號而不止，此亓故何也？即愚之至也。然則儒者之知，豈有以賢於嬰兒子哉？”

Gong Meng:

Gong Mengzi said: "I mourn for three years in imitation of the affection that my son shows to his parents." Mozi said: But does the baby have an intelligence to love only its parents? Why, then, should it keep on crying when the parents are not to be had? It is really the extreme degree of foolishness. Thus, is the intelligence of the Confucianists any higher than that of the baby?

13

公孟:

子墨子曰問於儒者：“何故為樂？”曰：“樂以為樂也。”子墨子曰：“子未我應也。今我問曰：‘何故為室？’曰：‘冬避寒焉，夏避暑焉，室以為男女之別也。’則子告我為室之故矣。今我問曰：‘何故為樂？’曰：‘樂以為樂也。’是猶曰‘何故為室’？曰‘室以為室也’。”

Gong Meng:

Mozi asked a Confucianist why the Confucianists pursued music. He replied, music is pursued for music's sake. Mozi said: You have not yet answered me. Suppose I asked, why build houses. And you answered, it is to keep off the cold in winter, and the heat in summer, and to separate men from women. Then you would have told me the reason for building houses. Now I am asking why pursue music. And you answer music is pursued for music's sake. This is comparable to: "Why build houses?" "Houses are built for houses' sakes."

14

公孟:

子墨子謂程子曰：“儒之道足以喪天下者，四政焉。儒以天為不明，以鬼為不神，天鬼不說，此足以喪天下。又厚葬久喪，重為棺槨，多為衣衾，送死若徙，三年哭泣，扶後起，杖後行，耳無聞，目無見，此足以喪天下。又弦歌鼓舞，習為聲樂，此足以喪天下。又以命為有，貧富壽夭，治亂安危有極矣，不可損益也，為上者行之，必不聽治矣；為下者行之，必不從事矣，此足以喪天下。”程子曰：“甚矣！先生之毀儒也。”子墨子曰：“儒固無此若四政者，而我言之，則是毀也。今儒固有此四政者，而我言之，則非毀也，告聞也。”程子無辭而出。子墨子曰：“迷之！”反，後坐，進復曰：“鄉者先生之言有可聞者焉，若先生之言，則是不譽禹，不毀桀紂也。”子墨子曰：“不然，夫應孰辭，稱議而為之，敏也。厚攻則厚吾，薄攻則薄吾。應孰辭而稱議，是猶荷轅而擊蛾也。”

Gong Meng:

Mozi said to Chengzi: In the teaching of the Confucianists there are four principles sufficient to ruin the empire: The Confucianists hold Heaven is unintelligent, and the ghosts are inanimate. Heaven and spirits are displeased. This is sufficient to ruin the world. Again they (practise) elaborate funerals and extended mourning. They use several inner and outer coffins, and many pieces of shrouds. The funeral procession looks like house-moving. Crying and weeping last three years. They cannot stand up without support and cannot walk without a cane. Their ears cannot hear and their eyes cannot see. This is sufficient to ruin the world. And they play the string instruments and dance and sing and practise songs and music. This is sufficient to ruin the empire. And, finally, they suppose there is fate and that poverty or wealth, old age or untimely death, order or chaos, security or danger, are all predetermined and cannot be altered. Applying this belief, those in authority, of course, will not attend to government and those below will not attend to work. Again, this is sufficient to ruin the world. Chengzi said: "Sir, you are accusing the Confucianists of too much." Mozi said: If the Confucianists hold nothing like these four principles and yet I say they do then it is false accusation. Now that the Confucianists do hold these four principles and I say so, then it is not accusation, but information. Chengzi had nothing more to say and went out. Mozi called him back. After being seated he continued: "What you, sir, have just said is not without fault. For according to what you have said, there will be no praise of Yu or blame of Jie and Zhou." Mozi replied: Not at all. You are only cleverly criticizing me according to traditional notions. When attack is heavy defence must be strong. When attack is light defence must be light. To criticize according to traditional notions is similar to trying to kill a moth with a thill.

15

公孟:

子墨子與程子辯，稱於孔子。程子曰：“非儒，何故稱於孔子也？”子墨子曰：“是亦當而不可易者也。今鳥聞熱旱之憂則高，魚聞熱旱之憂則下，當此雖禹湯為之謀，必不能易矣。鳥魚可謂愚矣，禹湯猶云因焉。今翟曾無稱於孔子乎？”

Gong Meng:

In a discussion with Chengzi, Mozi cited Confucius. Chengzi inquired why, since he condemned Confucianism, he cited Confucius. Mozi said: This has reference to what is right and cannot be altered. When the bird becomes aware of the danger of heat and of drought, it flies high. When the fish becomes aware of the danger of heat and of drought, it swims low. In such circumstances even the deliberations of Yu and Tang cannot differ from this. The bird and the fish may be said to be unintelligent. Yet, in some instances, even Yu and Tang would follow them. Should I never cite Confucius?

16

公孟:

有游於子墨子之門者，身體強良，思慮徇通，欲使隨而學。子墨子曰：“姑學乎，吾將仕子。”勸於善言而學。其年，而責仕於子墨子。子墨子曰：“不仕子，子亦聞夫魯語乎？魯有昆弟五人者，亓父死，亓長子嗜酒而不葬，亓四弟曰：‘子與我葬，當為子沽酒。’勸於善言而葬。已葬，而責酒於其四弟。四弟曰：‘吾末予子酒矣，子葬子父，我葬吾父，豈獨吾父哉？子不葬，則人將笑子，故勸子葬也。’今子為義，我亦為義，豈獨我義也哉？子不學，則人將笑子，故勸子於學。”

Gong Meng:

A man visited Mozi's school. He was physically well built and mentally brilliant. Desiring to have him in his school, Mozi told him to come and study and that he would make him an official. Persuaded by such an attractive promise, he came to study. In a year, he demanded a position of Mozi. Mozi said: I have not made you an official. But have you not heard the story of Lu? There were five brothers in Lu whose father passed away. The eldest son loved wine and would not conduct the funeral. The four younger brothers said to him, "You conduct the funeral for us, and we shall buy wine for you." He was persuaded by such an attractive promise and buried (his father). After the burial he demanded wine of the four brothers. The four brothers told him, "We will not give you any wine. You are to bury your father and we, ours. Is your father only ours? If you don't bury him people will laugh at you, therefore we urged you to bury him." Now, you have done right and I have done right, is it only my righteousness? If you don't learn, people will laugh at you. Therefore I urged you to learn.

17

公孟:

有游於子墨子之門者，子墨子曰：“盍學乎？”對曰：“吾族人無學者。”子墨子曰：“不然，夫好美者，豈曰吾族人莫之好，故不好哉？夫欲富貴者，豈曰我族人莫之欲，故不欲哉？好美、欲富貴者，不視人猶強為之。夫義，天下之大器也，何以視人必強為之？”

Gong Meng:

A man visited Mozi's school. Mozi said: Why not come and study? Came the reply, "None of my family is learned." Mozi said: No matter. Does he who loves beauty say, none of my family loves it, therefore I will not? And does he who desires wealth and honour say, none of my family desires them, therefore I will not? Now, in the love of beauty and desire for wealth and honour, one goes ahead regardless of others. And righteousness is the greatest thing in the world. Why should one follow others in doing it?

18

公孟:

有游於子墨子之門者，謂子墨子曰：“先生以鬼神為明知，能為禍人哉福？為善者富之，為暴者禍之。今吾事先生久矣，而福不至，意者先生之言有不善乎？鬼神不明乎？我何故不得福也？”子墨子曰：“雖子不得福，吾言何遽不善？而鬼神何遽不明？子亦聞乎匿徒之刑之有刑乎？”對曰：“未之得聞也。”子墨子曰：“今有人於此，什子，子能什譽之，而一自譽乎？”對曰：“不能。”“有人於此，百子，子能終身譽亓善，而子無一乎？”對曰：“不能。”子墨子曰：“匿一人者猶有罪，今子所匿者若此亓多，將有厚罪者也，何福之求？”

Gong Meng:

A man visited Mozi's school and said to Mozi: "Sir, you teach that the ghosts and spirits are intelligent and can bring calamity or blessing to man. They will enrich the good and harm the evil. Now, I have served you for a long time. Yet no blessing has come. Can it be that your teaching is not entirely correct, and that the ghosts and spirits are not intelligent? Else why don't I obtain any blessing?" Mozi said: Though you have not obtained any blessing, how does that invalidate my teaching and how does that make the ghosts and spirits unintelligent? He replied that he did not know. Mozi continued: Suppose there is a man ten times as virtuous as you are, can you praise him ten times while you praise yourself but once? He answered that he could not. Now suppose there is a man a hundred times as virtuous as you are, can you during your whole life praise him and not praise yourself even once? He answered that he could not. Mozi said: He who obscured the virtues of one person is guilty. Now, you have obscured the virtues of so many. You must be guilty of very much. Wherewith can you expect blessing?

19

公孟:

子墨子有疾，跌鼻進而問曰：先生以鬼神為明，能為禍福，為善者賞之，為不善者罰之。今先生聖人也，何故有疾？意者先生之言有不善乎？鬼神不明知乎？”子墨子曰：“雖使我有病，何遽不明？人之所得於病者多方，有得之寒暑，有得之勞苦，百門而閉一門焉，則盜何遽無從入？”

Gong Meng:

Mozi was sick. Die Bi came and inquired: "Sir, you have taught the ghosts and spirits are intelligent and are in control of calamity and blessing. They will reward the good and punish the evil. Now you are a sage. How can you become sick? Can it be that your teaching was not entirely correct, that the ghosts and spirits are after all unintelligent? Mozi said: Though I am sick how (does it follow that the ghosts and spirits) should be unintelligent? There are many ways by which a man can contract diseases. Some are affected by climate, some by fatigue. If there are a hundred gates and only one of them is closed, how is it that the burglar should not be able to get in?

20

公孟:

二三子有復於子墨子學射者，子墨子曰：“不可，夫知者必量亓力所能至而從事焉，國士戰且扶人，猶不可及也。今子非國士也，豈能成學又成射哉？”

Gong Meng:

Some of the pupils asked to learn archery with Mozi. Mozi said: Impossible. The wise should measure how far his energy can go and plan his career accordingly. Even a soldier cannot fight and help somebody at the same time. Now you are no soldiers. How can you be both accomplished scholars and accomplished archers?

21

公孟:

二三子復於子墨子曰：“告子曰：‘言義而行甚惡。’請棄之。”子墨子曰：“不可，稱我言以毀我行，愈於亡。有人於此，翟甚不仁，尊天、事鬼、愛人，甚不仁，猶愈於亡也。今告子言談甚辯，言仁義而不吾毀，告子毀，猶愈亡也。”

Gong Meng:

Some of the pupils reported to Mozi that Gaozi proclaimed Mozi to be teaching righteousness but doing wickedness, and urged him to denounce Gaozi. Mozi said: That would not do. To praise my teaching and blame my conduct is yet better than indifference. Suppose there is some one who declares that Di is quite unmagnanimous, that he reverences Heaven, worships spirits, and loves men - this is yet better than indifference. Now, Gaozi was quite discriminating in his statements. He does not blame me for teaching magnanimity and righteousness. So, blame from Gaozi is yet better than indifference.

22

公孟:

二三子復於子墨子曰：“告子勝為仁。”子墨子曰：“未必然也！告子為仁，譬猶跂以為長，隱以為廣，不可久也。”

Gong Meng:

Some of the pupils reported to Mozi that Gaozi was zealous in practising magnanimity. Mozi remarked: It may not really be so at all. Gaozi practises magnanimity in the same way as the man who stands on his tip toe to appear tall and spreads himself to appear broad. It cannot last long.

23

公孟:

告子謂子墨子曰：“我治國為政。”子墨子曰：“政者，口言之，身必行之。今子口言之，而身不行，是子之身亂也。子不能治子之身，惡能治國政？子姑亡，子之身亂之矣！”

Gong Meng:

Gaozi said to Mozi that he can administer the country and the government. Mozi said: To govern is to carry out what one teaches. Now you don't behave according to what you teach, this means that you yourself are in revolt. Being unable to govern one's self, how can one govern the country? Your self will set it in chaos.